Discussion with the Saxophone Summit

Over the past few years, Joe Lovano, Michael Brecker and myself have done a few gigs together with several different rhythm sections. The material played is mostly standards and in a sense it is like a high level jam session. Joe commented one night that it’s like three different quartets in one-a very accurate statement. We do some real ensemble “free” playing together, but most of all, the atmosphere has been enjoyably loose, spontaneous and warm. In December of 1999, we played three nights at Birdland in New York and I thought that we might have time for a kind of round table discussion to be edited for print, much like I did with Phil Woods in the (fill in the date here or volume number) issue of Changes. But alas, we had no time. However, Joe and Michael agreed to write some answers to a few questions I posed. Hopefully, a full blown interview will take place someday, but for now I think you will enjoy the responses from all of us. (Dave Liebman-2000)

1-What was the most influential sideman gig you had and why-in the musical sense that affected your playing or concepts?

MICHAEL: It’s difficult to choose the most influential sideman gig because I learned so much from all of the opportunities I had as a sideman or featured guest. I learned presentation and pacing, among other things, from Horace Silver. My stints with Chick Corea, Herbie Hancock, McCoy Tyner, Joni Mitchell, Paul Simon, etc., greatly enlarged my musical sensibilities.  The gig that probably had the most pivotal impact on me was the work (recording and touring) I did as a sideman with Pat Metheny in 1980-81.  Pat's group consisted of Jack DeJohnette on drums, Charlie Haden on bass, Dewey Redman and myself on saxes, and of course Pat on guitar.  The musical approach was free and open-- it was lyrical and emotionally intense at the same time. Rhythmically, the band was burnin'.  The chemistry between the musicians, all of whom had distinctively different approaches, was remarkable.  Previously, my playing on tours with my brother Randy, Steps Ahead, and a multitude of other groups, had been in a more structured format in terms of composition, time, solos, etc.  I had always saved the freer playing for jam sessions at home or more intimate settings.  Here was an opportunity to play in a looser environment for large audiences. In spite of the fact that the music could be quite abstract, the performances were riveting.  I loved playing in this group and the result was a dramatic shift in my approach to music.  When I formed my first band back in 1986, it was strongly influenced by Pat's 80-81 band--not to mention the fact that my first album had Pat, Jack, and Charlie in the rhythm section!

 JOE: The most influential gigs in my development have been all the different situations I’ve been able to learn from and contribute to. Starting with Lonnie Smith, it was all about hitting a groove; Woody Herman, about blending and phrasing, playing solos reaching for the high level of creativity of Frank Tiberi every night while playing in the shadows of Sal Nestico, Al Cohn, Zoot Sims, Flip Phillips and Stan Getz. The pressure was always on for me to find my own way and develop my own sound and approach in this music. The Mel Lewis Jazz Orchestra was all about interpretation of Thad Jones’ and Bob Brookmeyer’s music and to play in a large ensemble with a small band feeling. The Paul Motian Trio with Bill Frisell-to be creative in a trio with no bass, playing music freely but with total structure and organic orchestration as an ensemble. McCoy Tyner Quintet-feeling all of the warm spirits in jazz.

 LIEB: I was very fortunate to have worked steadily with three masters: Pete LaRoca, Elvin Jones and Miles Davis. I would say the main thing that I learned was the absolute intensity and conviction which one must bring to the bandstand to be great. No matter what was happening off stage, once the music started, nothing else existed--I had never experienced that before. It showed me a whole other level where life can exist. More specifically-with Pete it was about looseness and flexibility, feeling the stream of pulse rather than the separate units and especially how to hide the obvious first beat of a normal eight, four or twelve bar pattern. In Elvin’s case, how to lay behind the beat and relax without pushing all the time-and playing a ballad with the rhythm section so soft that they were hardly audible. Playing with Miles was about how to use drama, space and personal innuendo to get the best out of the rhythm section and tell a story everytime!! And I would be remiss if I didn’t mention the great contemporaries I have played with like Richie Beirach, Bob Moses, Billy Hart, Chick Corea, Randy Brecker, Jack DeJohnette and others from whom I have continuously learned a lot of the details over the decades.

2-Are there any outside sources that inspire playing wise or compositionally or philosophically?

JOE: Nature and embracing all cultures!!

LIEB: For the first two decades of playing and composing my personal life was the main source of inspiration-people I met, places, events both around and happening directly to me, etc. This has changed for the most part to a more general view of nature, life’s stages and thoughts on the passing of time. It seems to me that the course our life takes dictates the sources of inspiration. More and more, I see that for everything that happens there are two sides always active simultaneously: the yin/yang duality is really the truth.

MICHAEL: My most obvious sources of inspiration are other musician's playing, compositions, performances, recordings, gigs, etc.  I am fascinated as well, by music from other cultures, primarily West African and Afro Cuban among many others and have spent time studying them. I am also inspired by objects of art, classical compositions, books, and even films.  Inspiration also comes from the dynamics in relationships with others, especially my family. Many ideas have come from simple conversations.  (As of late, some conversations I've had with Steve Coleman have been thought provoking.) Inspiration can come from damn near anything as long as one is receptive. As of late, I been looking for ways to approach music and creativity more directly based on the path in which I have chosen to live.

3-What do you think about when you play?

LIEB: I try to stay in the moment. This is not as difficult musically as it is spiritually. When I am playing I am aware of what I have just played in relation both to myself and to the other musicians (if they are catching my attention). I quickly attempt to deduce what is needed in terms of tension and release in order to tell a complete story. A solo is like a chapter for me of the novel, which may be the entire performance or recording, whatever. It is crucial to me that the solo has a beginning, middle and end-a real emotional curve that can be discerned.
 
MICHAEL: The process for me is more a combination of listening, consciously (and subconsciously), bringing harmonic and rhythmic relationships to bear-using tension and release as a sculpting tool, visualization and some "muscle memory."  Playing for me is a beautifully intimate way of giving and
receiving with other musicians--and with the listeners as well. 

JOE: I try to relax into the music and react to the musicians I’m playing with at the moment--to create an ongoing dialogue in the harmony with spontaneous melody and rhythm.

4-How do you organize your artistic time- writing, practicing, hanging, whatever???

JOE: I try to stay loose and flow through each day without a repeated regimen of activity. I’m always playing and hanging at the same time, SOMEHOW…..

MICHAEL: My artistic time is often determined by the "what's next on my plate" approach.  Since I am constantly involved in varying projects, I focus on the project that is most imminent in terms of practicing and writing, etc.  I've also noticed that I seem to function best within modes.  There is certainly "writing mode," "touring mode, ""recording mode," etc.  Sometimes weeks are spent in one or various combinations of these modes.  Though it is sometimes difficult (particularly when on tour), I continue to practice the sax...there is always more to learn.  I enjoy practicing and writing early in the morning, before the phone starts to ring!  It's also helpful to keep my workspaces (and mind) relatively free of clutter. 

LIEB: This is the most frustrating aspect of my life at this stage. I feel privileged that this “ problem” is so insignificant in terms of the real world around us and what a lot of human beings have to deal with. Having said this, the situation is that there is no time to do much but work on the logistics of making a living and what that entails. Balancing these necessities with family and wanting to improve as an artist as well as keep contact with the many numbers of people we all meet is a big dilemma. So all I can do is what ever is the priority at the moment and that usually means whatever the next project is workwise or personally. It is a constant juggling act.